Estate Planning & Elder Law Hour - 10.28.17

Saturday, October 28th

I believe that Estate Planning is here to give you control over who is in charge of taking care of you and control over how you take care of your family after you are gone.  Without proper planning you can lose control and your family will not be able to take care of you as easily, or you will not leave your estate for the benefit of your family according to your wishes.

I had an experience in my own family where during a crisis, we lost control over where my grandmother was going to receive care.  This caused my grandparents in their last years to be separated by a long distance after more than 60 years of marriage.  I believe that my grandparents have drawn me into the field of estate planning and elder law to affect the lives of my clients so that they can have a different experience at the end of their lives than my grandparents did.

I place a special emphasis on protecting the assets of aging loved ones and educating families about complicated laws and the best options available to them.  I am passionate about helping others preserve their money, avoid probate, and achieve lifetime estate planning goals. 

I started my post law school career working for a large financial company helping financial planners with advanced estate planning and tax planning. I utilize this financial services experience to bring a different perspective to my estate planning and elder law clients.  My number one priority is to educate and empower clients to make the best decision for them and their family; there is no one way to do things.  I strive to give clients options and let them choose which direction they want to go.  I like to say, “If you don’t ask yourself the right questions, you never get the right answer for you and your family.”


Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

This is the estate planning an elder lauer with skip Reynolds. We dive into wills trusts powers of attorney and so much more. Now here's your host skip Reynolds welcome everybody this is so us get Reynolds with the estate planning an elder law. Our thanks so much for joining me this Saturday afternoon hopefully you're having a great Saturday so far. And hopefully continues as you listen to my show here today. Some people listen to me regularly other people catch me here in there. So one it just kind of refresh your memory on on what the goals of the show are really the goal of this show. Is to make sure that you out there at the listeners. Make good decisions when it comes to your state plan. And if you needed to go into some type of long term care do you make good elder law type decisions. Because what I ran into all the time and and and talk about a little bit today. Are people that. Maybe don't know. All of the different factors. And make decisions based upon what they think they know. And then something doesn't work out the way they thought. And now they have some type of problem or depending on the scenario maybe it's a problem we can't even fix. So really the goal is to hope you make good decisions so that you do give good council so that you do seek good answers from your professional sphere whether it's. Our attorneys such as myself whether it's a CPA or an accountant whether it's a financial planner of some sort. Whoever that might be. They can give you the good advice that you're looking for because who in my experience. So many times we make decisions based upon what I call. The ball effect and this ball that turns out to be facts that we've. Accumulated through our lives whether it's our neighbors our coworkers our friends our family experiences whatever it might be. We put it altogether we say this is the way it is. And unfortunately. In my world when we start saying this is a way it is is typically wind there's a piece that's wrong. And when we make a decision based upon a piece it's wrong. We end up with issues potentially down the road so that's kind of the goal of the shows I hope you make goes good decisions. If you missed any of the past shows you can always go to the crews in 1430 website. Go to the weekend show page. And goes to the estate planning an elder law power he can find it the podcast right there. Or you can go to my website WWW. Skipped ten law dot com that is SK IP. TO and law dot com. He goes to the blog page no real drop down he can click on the radio and now be all right there for you as well. So kind of one did bring up one more point I have one more free public workshop left for the rest of 2017. So if your goal was to try to get your plan going here in 2017. And you wanted to potentially talk to me about it. This is your last opportunity to come into my free public workshop. And get to 10% off discount off of your planning that have been offering for coming to my workshop to my radio listeners so my last workshop is. This coming Wednesday November the first. It is at the cobol library which is holly. And orchards so it's in the Greenwood Village here yes if you live on the south into town. Maybe that's somewhere close TU. And you might be able to make it if you wanna sign up for that he'd go to my website at skipped in law dot com good the workshop page you can sign up right there. If you don't wanna use the computer you can call my office and talked to Stacy. At 7204402774. So. What I wanna start talking about talked about it before but it's been. A couple of months if not more since I've talked about it. And Griese in there wanna talk about it again it is it is I had somebody come into my office hugest the last couple weeks. With this issue so the issue is how are we going to pay. For long term care. Now we've talked about what is long term care insurance we've talked about. Different forms of long term care insurance that's not what I'm gonna talk about today. When I wanna talk about today is what if worst starting to run out of money. How do we pay for this care for either whether it's us whether it's our spouse whether it's our mom our dad. Whoever that might be how we gonna pay for this. Because. I'll tell you right now it is a very stressful time in a family when someone needs to go into a higher level care whether it's assisted living. Memory care. Or nursing home in particular or even potentially staying at home and not knowing how long. That the caregiver can continue to care for this person because their needs may be too great in a relatively short amount of time. So that's kind of what I wanted to talk about so really the main ways you can pay for care. Are you can self pay with that means is you use your money your money being your income. Which would be from Social Security from your cry distributions from your retirement accounts. From your pen she ends from your rental real estate. From your dividends off of your other investments whatever it might beat you using to help pay for your costs of living really use that. But. If we need care that care may cost more than what you bringing in in the form of your income in in most circumstances it is higher. If it is higher how we gonna poll from these assets and which ones are we gonna pull from first. Well there's a whole lot of different thoughts around this a lot of people's first thought is leave the ire raise money. For a last. Because. Every time we take out a dollar out of our race there's tax write well. That's not necessarily wrong thinking but. I would encourage people to talk to their tax professional but it's CPA or count that they work with. Depending on the cost of the care there may be an offset for some of that income tax liability. If you take money out of your ire race to help pay for the care whether it's in the home independent living assisted living nursing home wherever it might be. You may actually get some of that money out with little to no tax on it. So just carte Blanche saying don't use the IRA money till last. Might not be the best decision. Because we might feel the use it sooner all depending on the scenarios. So that's self paying. We can have a long term care we've talked in the last few weeks a couple different times about long term care some not gonna beat a dead horse here. But it is a way to increase the amount of resource is available. To help pay for your care. Because I'll tell you right now the costs of care is going out of sight and we can all agree that it's not going down anytime soon. In an average cost of a nursing home in the Denver metro area is 8500 dollars or more average. And I'll tell you right now if you want less than the average you mean not like the place that your dad. I've got a couple clients that are staying in what I'd say there are relatively nice places. 9300 a month how we gonna pay for this and the thing that we have to consider that most people don't. Is it for a couple and one of us needs that high level of care. Whether it's assisted living memory care. Nursing home. It's not just the cost of the care of the individual receiving that care. We still have to pay for the spouse that's at home in the begin moving in with them what's their cost. What's there fixed cost to keep the house running groceries in the refrigerator food on the table lights on cell phone TV. Other kinds of things we have to add those two together. So for example if you got a custom care of 8500. And fixed costs a home all our 33000. We really have to cover 111500. Per month. Well very few of us have that kind of income coming in and that's gonna deplete our resource is relatively quickly. So now we start looking out okay well. We're just in this money really fast maybe we saved up a lot maybe we didn't. But what we did save. We didn't necessarily plan on blowing it really really fast and having the person who maybe isn't sick. Being with very little in the form of assets. Toward the end of their life so they get sick they have hardly any assets to pay for them more do any other things that they might wanna do in their lifetime. And because of this we can look at resource is such as Medicaid or veteran's age in attendance. Which are different ways of trying to help. Paid for. This care for a loved ones. In the event they were starting to get low on resource is. But I wanna go through a couple of case studies because I think that there are some myths surrounding. In particular Medicaid in year eligibility for such a program. So on before getting into the Medicaid piece really what I wanna talk about it. First for just a minute and whereas talk about it more next week is veterans aid and attendance there's a whole lot of people who served. Our great country here in the last fifty plus years that maybe starting to need care. You know I look in my family my father served during Vietnam. And you know he would be eligible for these benefits so the number one eligibility. Requirement is a you have to be a veteran. Or the surviving spouse of a veteran. Who served during a war time. Now talk more about what those dates are next week and how that whole plays out because they're really specific. But if you need to requirements serving at. During the wartime. Honorable anything other than a dis honorable discharge. We can potentially qualify you for veterans evening attendance. And new nice thing about a new attendance is that it will pay for your care wherever you may be receiving it. Whether it's in the home with its independent care whether it's assisted living. We can use it in the nursing home I'll see that it is a patch in the form of a nursing home for most of us because typically we are still. Pretty well short of covering the cost of the care. And I'll say this to veterans data attendance very similar to Medicaid in that you have to meet certain. Asset requirements. So let's talk more about what those requirements are next week so if you wanna learn more about that please stay tuned. Next week as we do a show all of our veterans in preparation for veterans day. But let's talk about Medicaid because. There is one big myth around Medicaid that I think most people have. Is that you cannot receive it in your home. When in fact here in the state of Colorado you can't. Now it's a limited program it's not like some other states that are out there where you can receive 24 hour care in your home. But you can receive community Medicaid in the state of Colorado. In your home in the assisted living in the independent living you can receive Medicaid if you're over 65 and you meet the qualifications. Or you can have what I call full blown Medicaid where now you're needing 24 our care and you are in the nursing home. So there's different programs with in Medicaid. Do you mean a call by for the qualifications. Are very similar for these different forms of Medicaid if you're over 65. Now. If you're 65 or older you should have Medicare. Which is what pays for your health insurance you know when you go see the doctor. But Medicaid. Not to be confused with Medicare. Is here to help pay for your long term care but he must meet their requirements. So the number one requirement. And this is across the board. Is that you are going to need. Health care meaning. You meet their health requirements. Meaning you cannot do you at least two of six activities of daily living. Things like beating yourself dressing yourself feeding yourself giving up from a chair. Those kinds of things. Or or usually if you have sometimes sort of dementia or their cognitive impairment that will help you qualify. For their health requirement. Now the second requirement is it the person going on Medicaid must meet an in com. Number. Now the stated number by the city Colorado. This year is 2205. Dollars per month. Meaning that the person wanting to go on Medicaid can have no more than 2205. Coming in every single month. So most people stop there and I'll tell unit a story here in just a minute but most people stop there if they have an income above. That 2205. And the reason as is they don't know that there are other things it can be done to help them. Such as. There are what's called a qualifying income trust. Being a specific type of trust mandated by the state if you have income over the 2205. Dollars. And depending on what area of the state you may be in. In particular here in the Denver metro area not to include Douglas County we can get your income for the person going indicator. Up to all the way up to 8300. Plus dollars per month. But most people don't even know about that most people think oh I've got more than 2205. I'm never gonna qualify. So that's just one little nuance and I'll talk about smother nuances here coming up. So he got to meet their income requirement once you meet the income requirement which I think for most of us will be easier to hit. Now that we know about that qualifying income trust. On. Is the asset requirement. And Yasser requirements changed drastically based upon your situation. What I mean by that is if you're a couple and one of you is sick. There's one requirement if you're a couple and both of you are sick there's another requirement if you're single it there's another requirement. So let's start with the couple's 'cause out warning gives us the most flexibility. So the couple's requirement is. You can exclude some assets. So the assets that can be excluded or not counted toward your eligibility. Would be your home. Would be your car. Of any value. Your car of any value your home if you have equity over 560000. Dollars this year they will start to count that equity. But if you have less than 560000. Dollars in equity your home can be not counted. And as a couple together. You can have 108120900. Dollars is just shy of a 121000. Dollars. And you can qualify for Medicaid. With those requirements. So. You can discount house a car and a 120000. Dollars but is anything above and beyond that I 120000 dollars. Regardless of its source it could be in the form of life insurance cash value can be in the form of retirement accounts. Non retirement accounts bank accounts on investments whatever it may be. An investment real estate. All of those things are counted. So when I come back I wanna talk a little bit more it. About these requirements for a single person in for a couple who both are sick. And then wanna go through a couple of stories slash case studies. To explain how these scenes can work and learn how to deal with the exceptions. With in Medicaid because Medicaid bombs. For lack of a better analogy is very similar to our tax code they're all kinds of exceptions to the exceptions to exceptions to the exceptions. So when I come back we'll continue our discussion about the different qualifying requirements for Medicaid. And talk about couple different stories of how we can deal with. Misconceptions. Out there to actually help a family qualify for these benefits and really relieved of big level of stress for them. So stick around with us after the break we'll continue our discussion about Medicaid. This is the estate planning an elder lauer with skip Reynolds. Are we dive into wills trusts powers of attorney and so much more. Now here's your host stiff Reynolds welcome back everybody to be state planning an elder law how would he skip Reynolds thanks so much for a ride with me here this Saturday afternoon. Hopefully your Saturday has been a good one so far. For any of those who might be just tuning in now we're talking about before the break a little bit about Medicaid. On not to be confused with Medicare which is what helps us pay for our doctors visits and so forth once we are 65 or older but we're talking about. Medicaid and how can help us pay for are a long term care needs if that is the situation that we are in. So I left off talking about the qualification requirements for. Couple and I wanted to just quickly rehashed the other two requirements in these requirements or the same Whittier couple. On whether both of you were going in daycare or your fears single person going in to care. You must meet the health requirement meaning you need some form of long term care and you need to have six what they call activities of daily living. Indoor you have some such sort of cognitive did impairment such as a dementia alzheimer's etc. The second requirement is an income requirement for the person going on Medicaid. We talked about it being 2205. Dollars here this year in Colorado. In if you have more than that you can still qualify. Or Medicaid using a statutory type of trust to gauge you up to a number closer to over 8000 dollars depending on where you might be in the state. But I left off talking about the requirements for a couple were just one person is going into a high level of care. And those requirements are you can discount your house meaning not count the value and unless you have. Equity above 560000. Dollars. You can discount the value of your vehicle. And it's a vehicle of any value. So if you've got to jaguar and it's where 60000 dollars you can use that as you your 60000 dollar offset. If you got a 5000 dollar I Nissan send truck you can offset that as well it doesn't matter. And in the third requirement for a couple where only one of them is going indicator. You can have just it's under a 121000. Dollars it's a 120900. That includes all of your assets that includes a cash value in your life insurance jury determine accounts. Your. Bank accounts your CDs your brokerage accounts. Whatever it might be do you have in the form of cash. Or other assets so if you have rental property that would be considered a piece of property that would be accountable resource. If you have over that 120900. Every single dollar is accountable. So we've got to figure out ways to deal with death panel talk about that here in just a couple of minutes. Now if you're a couple and both of you are going into long term care. That number of assets changes drastically. Now you can still discount your house if you have the intention of going back home. Whether you can go back home or not you just have to see you have any intention. You can still discount your car even though you can't drive your care car maybe it's for somebody to drive you around. But now the in resource requirement is 3000. Dollars not a 120. But now 3000. You can see Medicaid wants to be the Payer of last resort they want you to use your resources up before they start to pay. Now talk about some. Different types of things that we can do to try to. Shift things around and spend down or do other kinds of things here just a minute but it is vastly different if both people are going in to care. Now so mania of the people that I run into. Are either the couple where one person sick or. One of the couple has passed away and now we've got just survivor mom or dad. And they're going into long term care and so now again we can still discount the house if we had the intention to go home. We can still discount car because somebody can drive us around. But now the Reid did resource requirement is no more than 2000. Dollars. I think we can all agree that that's not very much for both the couple if they're both in. Care or the single person who's in care that is not a whole lot of resources. But there are different things that we continue to try to help in different types of scenarios. So those are what the requirements are but. Going back to what I said right before break Medicaid is it is a complex set of rules. And exceptions to the exceptions to the exceptions to exceptions to exceptions. You know kind of like our tax code where you can make certain moves and make assets or income not appear on year 1040. Similar kinds of things can be done if you know what those exceptions all our. There's the key thing is if you know with those exceptions are. To meet Medicaid is kind of like this is bad analogy that kind of like sausage. Lots and lots of ingredients. Most of us might know one or two but we don't know all of them. That's where. Attorneys such as myself that practice in elder law and work in and around Medicaid. So not just doing estate planning to see planning is one piece of it but do you elder law they're going to know. And it's a specific area they're going to know all of these exceptions. So that it can give you the best counsel. So that you can come out with the best answers. If you need. Long term care know most of us hope we don't need long term care and I'm with yeah I think most of us would hope that we would known. Die quickly non painful fall asleep never wake up whatever it might be but unfortunately most of us. We'll need some level care at the stats say 70% of us. We'll need some form a long term care. What that might be it theories and it's usually 90 to sixty years now going from. At home to the nursing home right away it's a progressive thing. But it does happen. So wanna talk about a couple of different. Case studies if you will or stories. The kind of illustrate how we can find some exceptions and maybe dispel some myths because I think the myth. There are three big mitts around Medicaid. One is that they'll take your house so. If you go on Medicaid they're going to take your house. So the first myth there. Is actually. Not true depending on the circumstances. So for example if you've got a couple and one person's going indicator in the others not. They are not going to attach to the house. As long as the spouse who is not sick doesn't die first. So if the spouses in here dies first. The spouse that stayed in the house can keep the house with no claim by Medicaid by the state. Now if you have a single person. Or a couple. And we were to not count the house in the value. They can come back after the death of the individuals on or individuals on Medicaid. And they will have a lien will take you through probate. And they will give back whatever they paid in four. Those people scare could be all of the value of the house could be a little part of the value we don't know. So sometimes we use in the situation where we've got a couple going in to care or a single person going in to care we choose hate. You know we don't know what these numbers are gonna be like we don't know how long they're gonna need this care so we make the executive decision. We're gonna sell the house. And we're going to you take the money and were going to do other things with it which he'll talk about here in a minute. All depending on the Stanley situation. And I'll talk about another exception in just a second as well to that whole rule. So first I wanna start with a couple who. Was in crisis meeting she was going in to care so. You know gonna make up names here but this is mr. and mrs. Jones. So. Let me tell you kinda what their assets look like. They had 133000. Dollars in equity in their home still had a mortgage. But at a 133000. Dollars in equity in this was at the time that we did this application I'm sure the equity has grown since then. They had a car with 5000 dollars. They had a bank account with 141000 dollars in it. Her hire ray was worth 92000. Dollars. His IRA was worth 78000. Dollars. And they had investments. Like brokerage account investments of a 180000. Dollars. And cash value inside of life insurance of 111000. Dollars. So they had a total assets. And that's with the equity in their house a 513. Thousand dollars. So when I see that number most people's first thought is oh my gosh they're never gonna qualify for Medicaid. We too much money he can have 513 thousand dollars qualify for Medicaid. I disagree. So. What was happening effort for him was her costs of care at that time was 7500. Dollars a month. He was seventy. Saying how much longer can I work just to keep this boat afloat. We worked our whole entire lives. And because her health took a right hand turn. She is now going to drain all the resources that they save their whole lives for. And he will be left with nothing and he's saying wall what in my get a do you ten years from now fifteen years from now if I need some help around the house or if I need to do things for myself. And have no resource is so he was really worried it was a huge huge burden on him. So. He was told by. Someone else that he was going to have to spend down all recess at sea he was just going to have to. You don't bite the proverbial bullet and just keep paying and paying and paying and paying. Well. I disagreed with that sentiment so. Well we did is we found one of these exceptions to the rules. And what we did is we. Didn't count the house we didn't count the car we didn't count a 120900. Of their assets. But what we did is we took all the rest of it. And we did something with the exceptions to the rules. That allowed her to immediately go on Medicaid. In him. To keep all of his assets over a period of time. Who used the exceptions we use the rules that have been given to us. If you don't like the rules that's that's your thoughts and I don't necessarily disagree or agree with you. But the rules are there rules and we followed the rules we didn't break any laws in doing what we did for him. So he will keep this 513 thousand dollars she is on Medicaid has been on Medicaid for over a year now. He can't think you need enough. She's getting the care that he wants her to receive. It's good care people have myths around Medicaid indeed being bad care now we can be. But it can also be good care and so he's very happy with her care. And part of the reason he's happy with their care and on gonna make this comment would you pay for yourself for your on Medicaid. Part of the good cheer comes from the family involvement. If you're not showing up if you're not around if you're not involved in the care of that individual or individuals. Their care will be Dowd Whittier paying 8000 a month out of pocket but whether you're on Medicaid. Those are the facts. Because there's less accountability. If you're never there. Nobody's ever there saying hey I need you to do this for them or hey they need this or hey don't do this kind of stuff. But where have you heard the you could have 513 thousand dollars is still qualify for Medicaid. Most people don't even think that that's possible. But it's possible she's been on for over a year. Now wanna talk about a story of somebody iMac here recently. So. Not everybody has that amount of resources when it comes time to you have one of us go to care. So we might be closer to give requirements. But sometimes if we don't know. All of the exceptions. Or how to even ask for the exceptions. We don't know that we might be eligible. To go on Medicaid. Sooner. Than we thought so this this couple what there at issue was whose husband is going into care. He had memory care issues it got to a point where it was unsafe for him to be home. Armed with his spouse. On a number of different levels. So he needs to move out. So we move him now we move me into if they into a he was a memory care facility in it in the memory care communities said okay we'll help you guys. Qualify for Medicaid meaning we'll hope you do the application. So they help them do the application. And they Cindy and everything and then they get it denial letter meaning Medicaid said no. That he was not eligible for Medicaid. What they came back and said is that. Number one we wanna see you're of revote Kubel living trust me they wanted to review it. And the second thing was that he had too much in income. So their situation was. She has in come. Around 900 dollars per month from Social Security not very much. He has income from the pension in from Social Security. I think it was right around 3000 dollars of that is above the 2205. Dollar requirement. But. They had assets. Right around a 120900. Level. Meaning they really didn't have to spend much more money to qualify. And that was what they've been told. Which was right but when they win may the application they said his income was too high. So I wanna take a break here. I wanna come back and wanted to tell you why they said with they said and there was talk about how. If they would have known about the exception to that rule for income. How we could have qualified him the first time around. So she doesn't get a bill like she got from the care facility. When he got denied. So when we come back we'll continue our discussion about crisis Medicaid. Some of the exceptions. To all of these rules that maybe we didn't even know were available. I think hit a lot of people just don't know these are there so if you missed any part of the show so far. You can go to decrease in 1430 website go to the weekend show page. Good idiocy planning an elder and our page in you can find the podcast there or you go to my website at WWW. Skipped in law. Dot com that's SK IP. TON a law dot com. You go to the blog page go drop down click on radio and you can find a podcast there. Also want to mention again I have one more workshop here in 2017. There is free to the public in if you come to that workshop. You come any meet with me need you estate planning I will give you 10% off of your state plan. If you come to this workshop. So I've got one more it's on this coming Wednesday November the first is that the cobol library. Which is at orchard and Hawley Sunni Greenwood Village area. It is from 10 o'clock until noon. If you go to my website and go to the workshop page has skipped in law dot com but it workshop KG can sign up there. You wanna call and don't want to use a computer you can call in talk to Stacy at 720. 4402774. You can sign up for this workshop love to see you there. Love to help you accomplish your goal of getting your state plan updated indoor started if you haven't done so already. Before the end of 2070. So I come back on and continue my discussion about my case study. With these people I met here recently that got denied for Medicaid. Because he didn't know some of the exceptions to the rules so stick with me we'll continue our discussion on Medicaid. This is the estate planning an elder law hour with skip Reynolds. We dive into wills trusts powers of attorney and so much more. Now here's your host skip Reynolds. Welcome back everybody to DC planning an older lot hour with me skip Reynolds thanks so much for right Mitt meet this Saturday afternoon. You missed any of the beginning parts of the show you can go to the crews in 1430 web site. Go to the weekend show page then click on the estate planning an elder law power and you can find it right there. Or if you miss seeing you wanna go to my website maybe search around in nest Seymour about meet you go to you WWW. Skipped ten. A law dot com that is SK IP. TO and a law dot com go and click up on the top row on the blogs they'll drop down click on radio and you'll find the podcasts right there. Also. I reminded everybody rep for the break it to you wanna make another reminder. If you wanna come to one of my free public workshops and be eligible for the 10% discount on your state plan. I've got one workshop left here in 2017. Says he had legal game your playing done or updated here in 2017. This is your last opportunity to come to one of my workshops and get this discount. It is Wednesday this coming Wednesday November the first. At the cobol library in Greenwood Village from 10 AM to noon you can sign up on my web site. I going to skipped in law dot com going to workshop page. Or you can call my office at 720. 4402774. And we can get you signed up right there as well. So. Kind of back to our discussion we are talking a little bit about some people I met here recently they got denied from Medicaid. We got tonight in my opinion mainly because. Who is helping them file of the Medicaid application. Did not know. All of the different exceptions in the rules that went along with Medicaid. So they got denied mainly because there income was too high meaning the and a husband that was going unique here is income was too high what how do we deal with that well. We got to do some things well. First of all in one of the things that we could potentially used. Would have been who. This statutorily required qualifying income trust which for this couple we could have taken all of his extra 800 dollars a month. And put it in did this income trust and that would've made him eligible. But I think that there was actually a better way for them to do it. Because there is something where would if the spouse who is not receiving care has a low income. We can in effect move some of the income from the spouse it's going in to care. Over to the other side overdo what we call the community spouse spouse is it's not sick. To bump up that person's income no higher than specific numbers. And by doing now we reduce how much income the person going on Medicaid pass. So in this scenario because his income was about 3000 dollars a month in hers was 900. We could very easily use this exception to the rule moved his income over her. By just requesting it. All of a sudden now he's income needs the income requirements she gets to keep more of his income. And now they're qualified for Medicaid but they got denied because they didn't notice. Oh what was the cost of their denial. Because everything that we do in we make a mistake on there is a cost. So the cost of this denial was. Deep places had allowed him to move in what we call Medicaid pending meaning it sent an application. And we're waiting to see if he's gonna qualify or not. What when he got disqualified in and denied from Medicaid. They sent her bill. Saying well he stayed here for three and a half months. And then guess what he didn't get accepted on Medicaid so we're gonna have to do you are regular rate for the services rendered. Well that bill came to her in the form of 141000. Plus dollars. So he was there are two to three months. And the cost was over 141000 dollars. So by not understanding the rules in the exceptions to the rules and making the application. And then being denied he is going to cost them. At least 141000 dollars in the form of back payment to either place that he was out when he made the application. But in addition to that it's gonna cost them more the reason why is now they're having to pay for his care again. While we do another Medicaid application that takes time to be approved even in a slam dunk situation. Just because you qualified doesn't mean these are paying right away. And the police did their act will not accept him Medicaid pending. So that means even though we're gonna make you Medicaid application we can let them the facility know. But they're still gonna make her pay for him out of her pocket. So he was the 141000 dollars for being denied plus the two to three months. Moving forward now and there's been a month or two in between the denial. So really it's gonna cost them six months worth of his care for not getting it right. The first time. I don't know about you but I like to get things right the first time especially when it's gonna cost me thousands and thousands of dollars. And really the person it's gonna affect the most in this situation is the spouse. Because she's gonna have less and resource is for the long term. Because we have used more on his cared during his lifetime because we didn't know all of the rules and the exceptions the rules. Now is this every clients' experience no. Many people just get except her right away many people are already qualified and maybe don't even know it. Some people don't know that you can have a 120000. Dollars instill put your spouse on Medicaid. And have the other spouse retain those assets so we spending we spend in we spend and we spend. Oh and then we find out about it when we've only got 50000 dollars left meanwhile we just fined 70000 dollars. Or more. Seek help people please do but he called my office when you call somebody else. Please seek help if your family is experiencing someone in your family that is needing a high level of care. But it's. Assisted living memory care nursing home even in the home high level of care. Give hope ask questions. You may not even know what is out there you may not even know the rules. If anything. Knowing more is always better even if you're not eligible or decide that you don't want to ever go on Medicaid in Euro case spending all your resources. I'm OK with that too. But I'm not okay with you not knowing what your options are. Because that's what my passion is my passion is give people options and let you choose the option that's best for your family. Whether that's going on Medicaid but it's not going on Medicaid whether that's asset protection planning whatever that might be for you and your family. If you don't know you don't know you don't ever get the right answer. So back to this story after a rant and rave there is we're gonna make this application we're gonna ask for these different exceptions. And I am. Very very positive in that they will be accepted this time around first shot and we do get them going. Here's the other thing is when you hire an attorney typically. To help you do these things yes it costs more money. No doubt about that but there is value to them money many times those of us attorneys it do this circle work. If you were to be denied. Were going to help you fight that denial. With these particular people they got tonight and they just letting go they didn't know what to do. And so it died on the line now we're gonna have to make another application rather then just. Asking for a fair hearing or other kinds of things that we can do within the Medicaid process. So. We can help you do these things mile off this can help be do you easings. If you have a loved one who's in care. Call our office common in Simi. We'll see you a packet of questionnaire. Asks you what you're assets are what your income is what your cost of care is. All of those scenes in we can give you your readout of how this minute work for you and your family. You may be surprised. How much she might be able to still have and or protect and still get really care. And have choices. That maybe you didn't even know that you had as it pertains to receiving care. So if you want that call my office. Come any Simi go to my web site. I'd love to help you and your family at least answer some of the questions that may be running through your mind it's. So if if you're the one that's. You know the caregiver. There are very resource is out there for you and I wanna be one of those resources for you 11 other quick story that don't wanna kind of run through here. Before the end of our time here today. Is. If we are both sick or if we are single person say our spouses passed away her mom or dad is passed away we just have one person remaining or both of us are going in to care. We can still exempt the house we can it still exempt the car but we may choose not to. The reason being is we don't know. How long were going to be in this level of care. So sometimes we take the known vs the unknown all the pending. But that is we can sell a house. Or let's say you have a child that lives in the house. And has lived there for more than two years and we can show that they helped. The person who's meeting her now high level of care not receive that high level of care. Over the last two years there's an exception to the rules we need not even have to lose that house in that exception. So if you are living with mom or dad and your care giving for them and you're listening to the show. We can help you we could potentially help you get to care for mom or dad they may need without losing all the assets you think you're going to lose. The other thing is even if we were to liquidate the house that say we don't need any of those other exceptions. Typically we can still protect. Fifty to 80% of the remaining a state from having to be spent on their care. So I have somebody here recently her stated goal was I wanna make sure that I get this piece of property. That's in North Carolina. To my. Daughter. I also want to make sure that I give a little bit of money to my grandchildren these were high high priorities for mom. We can help her do that and still have her be eligible for Medicaid. Over a period of time. She didn't even know this was possible until she sat down with me. So sometimes. You know like so many other things in life. You find out something new that maybe you didn't know where you thought was a different way. And come to find out that there are options that you didn't even know were available. And that's really what my job is to do is to provide you and your family with these options. And make you choose what's right for you because there are varying mind sets on all of these things. And I I've had discussions with folks. Even other attorneys for that matter. Oh well you know why would we wanna put somebody on Medicaid. In the Medicaid is no good. Now I disagree with that you can walk into many of these nursing homes around town. And you can't tell the difference between somebody who's paying for themselves or somebody who's on Medicaid and the people that work there sure as heck don't know the difference either. Maybe the business office does. But the caregivers don't know the difference so that's common myth there. The other thing around it is well I don't ever want to be on the quote unquote public dime and there's nothing wrong with that sentiment. If you're OK with spending all of your resources down. Before you would ever go on Medicaid I'm OK with that team. There's not a wrong answer here. But there are many of us out there who are feeling intense pressure. To. How we get it pay for all of this how might not going to be broke and still get care for my loved ones how money going to still. Achieve the ultimate life goal of giving something to my family whenever that might be. We can't help those people that have those mind sets by using the rules that we have available to us. You Medicaid's it is they're we're program. It's a federal program administered by the states. Now there's been lots and lots of talk out there knowing the different media outlets in including. Coming from our president saying you know we're gonna change Medicaid. We're gonna get rid of some of the Medicaid expansion we're gonna make it a block grant program all these different things that are coming out of Washington. Will wait and see what happens I don't know what's gonna happen any more than anybody else does. But I will tell you this the 65 and up program hasn't changed very much. The program or Medicaid they got expanded so greatly. Was for those of us under 65 years old then met certain requirements that would allow us to get. Doctors visits and other things cared covered by Medicaid. The 65 and up Medicaid that I work with in my office has not changed greatly because of the Affordable Care Act in the expansion of Medicaid now. Depending on how they fund Medicaid that could change things potentially. But will they just as it comes it's hard to know what's gonna happen it's kind of like our tax rates. You know we can hear all kinds of things but until we see actual change. We can't react to what those are until we see with the changes are going to be. So the whole goal my show today was to show you out there the listener. Ask questions. Come in in Simi if you wanna come and sit down with me. I have a consultation to talk about a potential Medicaid scenario yes they charge for that. To talk about the Medicaid. Because I'm gonna be giving you your family legal advice. But. The costs of coming to see me. If that's the only that I just described here couple minutes ago has come to see me for 300 dollars. That's my hourly rate data come to see me for 300 dollars. They would have saved. Potentially twenty to 30000 dollars had they have come and seeming. Just by understanding. What the exceptions to the rules were before they media application they were gonna make anyway. So. Hopefully he learned something today hopefully he. Maybe assets something you had heard me say before maybe you miss the program earlier when I talked a little bit about these things with different cases out there. So hopefully there was some benefit T today. I hope your Saturday has been a good one a one to also remind you one last time I have one more workshop left. In 2017. If your goal was to get your state plan done by the end of 2017. Time is running out were at the end of October now. Heading into November so my last workshop free public workshop if you come and see your radio listener. And we'll give you 10% off when you come in and meet with me to start your Steve planner update your plan. If you come in and meet with me that 10% offer is good if you come Wednesday November the first. At the cobol library from 10 AM to noon. And he can sign up by going to my website skipped in law dot com. Clicking on the workshop page it's signing up right there or you can call my office at 720. 4402774. If you wanna talk about the crisis he got somebody in here call my office 720440. 2774. Or set you up with the consultation. We'll go through all these scenes for you and your family and give you what your options are. Thanks again so much for everybody missing this Saturday have. In celebration of veterans day coming up. Thanks so much have a great rest your Saturday and talk to next week. Thanks for listening to be state planning an elder law our would skip Reynolds. Tune in next week where we talk about some great new topics this is the estate planning an elder law hour with skip Reynolds that's every Saturday from two to three on cruise in 1430. You can Reynolds is a licensed attorney in Colorado all of the stories and content of this state planning an older life hour are not intended to be directly to a vice they are for illustrative purposes only additionally new attorney client privilege has been performed with the law offices have been Reynolds LLC we're still in Reynolds as wire went to seek legal counsel before making any estate planning or elder lob city. All of the views of the guests of the show are their own and are not views of the law office looks at the Reynolds LLC or skipping right over Esquire. Nor is there appearance and endorsement of goods or services for the law offices have been Reynolds LLC was at the Reynolds Esquire.